Aspies For Freedom

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Congratulations Smile
I've seen a lot of antagonism toward self-diagnosed Aspies.  Not so much on this forum - but some are very harsh toward members who don't have an official diagnosis.

I think that kind of attitude is a shame, because not everyone has the benefit of an immediate professional diagnosis.  Life is often enough of a struggle for us, official dx or not, without being shunned by the very people that could be an Aspie's best support network.

Simen Wrote:

Elventaoist Wrote:
I've seen a lot of antagonism toward self-diagnosed Aspies.  Not so much on this forum - but some are very harsh toward members who don't have an official diagnosis.

I think that kind of attitude is a shame, because not everyone has the benefit of an immediate professional diagnosis.  Life is often enough of a struggle for us, official dx or not, without being shunned by the very people that could be an Aspie's best support network.


I think people are entitled to be skeptical of self diagnoses (it's a simple fact that most people will not be qualified to make diagnoses), but that's not any good reason to exclude them from sites like this.


I agree, I think it's best to seek an official diagnosis whenever possible, even if you're sure about a self-diagnosis.  I definitely wasn't meaning to advocate self-diagnosis in favor of a professional one.  Smile

Erm...I think I phrased that wrong...I was trying to say I wasn't trying to advocate self-diagnosis OVER a professional one.  What I wouldn't give for an "edit" button.  Sad
If you see what I mean, I think Smile

As a "self-diagnosed" who was just confirmed yesterday, I don't scowl off the self-diagnosis many give themselves. I'm not saying you have to be autistic because you think you are, but I think people know themselves best, and I think it takes a lot of self-examination and reflection for most before you feel sure of you self-diagnosis, as I did. Smile
I agree with you, but again I can only refer to myself as an example. I was pretty sure it was AS. I fit the diagnostic criteria, and since I was still in doubt, I checked other conditions that are often mistaken for AS. They did not fit.

For many adults, it seems, an official diagnosis is more for a confirmation of their suspicions and a validation of their past experiences. At least that's what it's like for me. Getting a 'thumbs up' from a professional hasn't changed me, my experiences and problems.

featherways Wrote:
Or is this potentially parents or professionals not able to accept that their child is different, validly different, in their way of interacting with the world?  Are they desperate to "normalise" them to this extent not because it benefits the child, but because they have a personal need for these children to behave normally?  


making a gross generalization - please forgive me, but...

I find many ABA-driven programs run by those who want to wipe out autistic behaviors.  These kids are isolated from "typically developing peers (TDPs)" meanwhile.  Their goals are written towards specific behaviors.

While engagement-driven theroists want kids to find ways of making their own lives.  Goals are more social-pragmatic and intervention is best carried out with an assortment of peers.  Meanwhile, TDPs are growing up thinking that a variety of personalities are "normal"

I have a bias toward engement, inclusion, and family-centered programing that uses ABA when a specific behavior is a big stressor for the family or acting as a barrier for the child AFTER environmental issues have been ruled out (sensory, medical, schedules, etc)

What has worked best for you/yourn

grizeldatee Wrote:

Janet Wrote:

grizeldatee Wrote:
Helen Keller was about 7 when Anne Sullivan showed up at the farm, and we all know the rest of that story.


Helen Keller was still within the "window of opportunity" for language acquisition AND she had been exposed to language (and vision) until the age of 19 months.

Additionally, the brain remains "plastic" thoroughout the lifespan.  During brain growth & maturation (until the age of 21) plasticity is most productive.

However, I do agree that interpreting research requires high levels of expertise, and that is a good reason to seek out peer reviewed articles.


I was responding to the quote you included that asserted language acquisition was certain before age 6 and iffy after puberty. I know that one of the ten most influential people a couple of years ago was a guy named Davidson, who showed that the mere act of focused thinking changes the structure of adult brains. I also know that the neuroscientific research that I've looked at over the past 10 years indicates that brains remain plastic throughout life, which is contrary to the conventional wisdom of 15-20 years ago. (I know that you have just asserted this, but it was not apparent in your original post.) We are, however, creatures of habit, so I suspect that the desire to change or effective means for changing patterns of behavior are indicated as adulthood progresses. We tend to find something that works and stick with it. Smile

Anyway, the point is that when we look at generalizations about populations, we cannot easily make assertions about any specific individual. We are looking at probabilities, not certainties.  Too often such nuances are quite lost by the time such "findings" percolate down to the classroom, and we are left with one-size-fits-all strategies. In addition, classrooms are often operating on the "findings" from two decades ago since the percolation process is not a rapid one.  Bureaucracy is not the best agent of change.

The good news is that, in the process of derailing this thread, you and I have engaged our brains and kept a few neurons going that might otherwise have died. Tongue

On topic -- I have chosen most-probable diagnoses for all of my spectrum children basically by comparing them with other spectrum children and seeing who they match up with best. Sean had severe speech delays, but taught himself to read and write at age 4. He is a social little guy and was determined to find a way to communicate. I decided HFA for him.  At age 9 his speech is comprehensible, but markedly different.  His academics are just beautiful, though.  He is a very smart young man.  The oldest, with no speech delay and hyperlexic I've decided is AS even though he enjoys palilalia and echolalia.  I've pointed it out to him and he doesn't want to change and I will not make him. The girl will be 8 soon and has a few more challenges than the boys. In addition to speech issues, she has poor muscle tone. She is finally starting to read, write and do addition. Removing her from public school has had a profoundly positive impact on her academics. It is my hope that she is fully at grade level by the time she is 10.  I've read many studies indicating that delayed children often catch up to their peers.  I've decided that she'd probably be diagnosed PDD if we got diagnoses, mostly because she has a friend with that diagnosis and they are like peas in a pod.


I would say that you and I are in agreement dispite our different ways of expressing basically the same info.

Its been nice spending some time getting to know you.

I have been flapping my lips a bit too much.  I posited my current approach, but wanted to hear more about what all of you think.  This is a good spot or I started a thread in the "general" section titled, "How to DO autism."  That would also be a good place.

I am all ears!
You sound like me, Batman55, but I did not recieve any intervention or help until I learned how to help myself.  I still have many difficulties with social-pragmatic interactions, and other learning disabilities, but persistence and continued maturity (I am 54) do much to help.


Batman55 Wrote:

Janet Wrote:
Additionally, the brain remains "plastic" thoroughout the lifespan.  During brain growth & maturation (until the age of 21) plasticity is most productive.


Any way you look at it, though, I had attentional and learning difficulties from age of 0 to the age of 21, and they didn't "budge" despite doing work in the trouble areas.  I refer to my schooling and the variety of social interactions I had up to the age of 21.  I still have the same "mental blocks" I had then, now.  My social anxiety is perhaps worse now, than it was at 18 (when I was very social.)

So, I do not think brain plasticity is the "be all, end all" of what a person can do with their cognition once they hit adulthood.  We have things unique to our neurology young, and a lot of these same quirks, strengths, deficits tend to stay the same when we get older, despite work in the trouble areas.

I mean, could you argue that if I had been forced to join more extracurricular activities (such as sports) when younger (in those "most plastic" of all years), I'd be a more capable human being now?  I think the reverse could be true, I'd have been so terrible due to my attentional problems, trouble following directions, and mild dyspraxia, the social embarrassment would have lowered my self-esteem and I might be worse for the cause, and not better.

I was never "forced" into extracurricular activities, as an aside... is that bad parenting you think, or just my style (because of extreme anxiety, I hated those things) ??

Janet Wrote:
I was never "forced" into extracurricular activities, as an aside... is that bad parenting you think, or just my style (because of extreme anxiety, I hated those things) ??


When I am talking about early intervention, I am refering to the time before a child starts school - so preschool or kindy.  I have worked with kiddos as young as two.  The extra-curricular activities are well planned and well supervised.  Mostly, everything takes place in the classroom and at home.

Plasticity simply is the brain changing in response to stimulation.  Me learning spanish at age 54 demonstrates that my brain continues to be plastic.

I think that forcing a child to do extra curricular activites, especially if the typically developing peers also participating have limited exposure to kids with autism/asperger, would be bad parenting.  It would probably just make things worse.

TheZach Wrote:
1: As an excuse for them wanting to be a jackass they just claim 'I have Aspergers'.  I use to work for one of these idiots.
2: Because its the latest and greatest fad to get attention from people.

If you self diagnose you dont have Aspergers you THINK YOU HAVE ASPERGERS.


I THINK I have aspergers.  

Other people THINK I have aspergers.  

In 1999 I was Dx'ed with ADD, which is how they categorized women then who are now thought to have aspergers

All that an official diagnostician can do is attest that s/he THINKS an individual has aspergers - there is no absolute "test."  Its just a description

Its a great fad when your child, brother, husband, cousin, neighbor has it - it kinda sucks when its oneself grappling to hold a job, pay bills, raise children, understand and be understood by cooworkers.  Its a struggle to interact on a daily basis in a world that is alien

You're right, I am a jackass - your point being...?

TheZach Wrote:
That official diagnostician went to school for years


There are several people on this forum and in my life who have PhDs from SHK*.  I guess that's why they have my respect.

I dealt with some real lulus who let being "That official diagnostician went to school for years"  who only managed to get inflated egos of themselves and expected everyone else to have that same opioion.

So, its six of one, half-dozen of the other....

*the school of hard knocks.

TheZach Wrote:

Chosen 1 Wrote:

TheZach Wrote:
Here are my thoughts:

Its not good for anyone to self-diagnose with anything.  There are too many common charecteristics between things as well as I have seen people self diagnose for these two reasons and both piss me off:

1: As an excuse for them wanting to be a jackass they just claim 'I have Aspergers'.  I use to work for one of these idiots.
2: Because its the latest and greatest fad to get attention from people.

If you self diagnose you dont have Aspergers you THINK YOU HAVE ASPERGERS.

You're right! I think I have Aspergers.But  you are wrong about the reason I self diagnosed.

1:I am no jack ***.I have no excuses.I want nothing in return.I don't 'act ' any certain way for any reason.

2:I get enough unwanted attention from people.Aspergers is not a fad to me.I have told only two people of me thinking I am Aspie.One had to agree the other laughed and thought it was my "strange sense of humor."

I self diagnosed mainly for my own peace of mind.I'm content with it.And you do not need to be angry at me for my choice.I am not hurting anyone by thinking I am Aspie.


Wrong, you didnt self diagnose - you just think you have Aspergers.  You are not qualified to diagnose anyone with anything - even a common cold.


This whole 'who can dx' thing is really dumb.  BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU HAVE AN *OFFICIAL* DX AND ARE FEELING PRETTY PROUD AND EXCLUSIVE

I (who is not qualified to dx) KNOW son has adhd.  the teachers (who are not qualified to dx) KNOW my son has it. the psych who is not qualified to dx it SUSPECTS my son has adhd b/c he asked parent & teachers (who KNOW) to answer questions.

The person *qualified to dx* it did not know my son, does not know much about adhd, looked at a letter (not my son) given her by the psych, and wrote the dx.  My son now has an *O.F.I.C.I.A.L.* diagnosis.  Boy are'nt we impressed (she said sarcastically)!

S.T.U.P.I.D.

Batman55 Wrote:

Janet Wrote:
You sound like me, Batman55, but I did not recieve any intervention or help until I learned how to help myself.  I still have many difficulties with social-pragmatic interactions, and other learning disabilities, but persistence and continued maturity (I am 54) do much to help.


Would you stop digging at me with these "subtle" statements?  Are you suggesting I'm not working hard enough on myself, or something?

Let's keep the subtlety to a minimum, as I won't be able to read it (or if I do, I'll read it to think you're insulting me.)


I talk about myself, batman55.  I am not particulary subtle.  I don't know why you think I am talking about you.  I referred to you b/c what you said about yourself is also true for me.

I will try to be more careful, though, cause I do not mean to offend you.  Its good you let me know when I do - thanks

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