09-11-2007, 07:37 PM
09-11-2007, 07:42 PM
There was a nice article some time ago about the conflict between the cure militia and neurodiversity supporters.
09-11-2007, 08:42 PM
The comment from MikeBTexas is so typical in assuming that only supposedly super high functioning people do not want to be cured, and people elsewhere on the spectrum want a cure. They are completely missing the point.
09-11-2007, 08:47 PM
I have reported MikeBTexas's post, mainly for this completely ignorant comment "If Aspies don't like the stigma of a disease then don't subscribe to it, just be yourself and don't try to hijack the label for something it was never intended for."
Most people who get a diagnosis of aspergers do so under 18 at the moment, it is a decision made by parents or doctors to see a specialist, not a lifestyle choice to subscribe to a supposed disease as if its a fashion magazine!!! GRRRRRRR
Most people who get a diagnosis of aspergers do so under 18 at the moment, it is a decision made by parents or doctors to see a specialist, not a lifestyle choice to subscribe to a supposed disease as if its a fashion magazine!!! GRRRRRRR
09-12-2007, 11:41 AM
What I wouldn't give to turn around and say to people in power "I'm not disabled - I'm just different!"
The trouble is - by definition under the laws of certainly Australia (and I would assume most other countries) - we are disabled. We don't like it and we have every right not to like it, but I take the view of "we need it". If anything to protect ourselves from those NT's who give us so much trouble.
This article pretty much picks that point up. If we could just educate the world about "difference" as opposed to disability we'd be a lot better off. That's why - as much as certainly the mercury militia doesn't like it - we are right when we compare ourselves to others who get treated poorly because of basic difference. Whether it be race, gender, sexual preference, religious belief, etc etc. The reason why we need protection is because of that intolerance.
The trouble is - by definition under the laws of certainly Australia (and I would assume most other countries) - we are disabled. We don't like it and we have every right not to like it, but I take the view of "we need it". If anything to protect ourselves from those NT's who give us so much trouble.
This article pretty much picks that point up. If we could just educate the world about "difference" as opposed to disability we'd be a lot better off. That's why - as much as certainly the mercury militia doesn't like it - we are right when we compare ourselves to others who get treated poorly because of basic difference. Whether it be race, gender, sexual preference, religious belief, etc etc. The reason why we need protection is because of that intolerance.
09-12-2007, 12:30 PM
We need to emphasis that cure = abortion. Also that people with autism and their families should not be discriminated against. People just don't want to face that genocide is happening.
I am sick of hearing that "high functioning autistics say they don't want a cure but they are being selfish toward low functioning." The same old high/low function division. Low functioning people or people with types of autism from Asperger's do not deserve to die. Then there is the division of people who are disabled by accident or illness from people who were born with a condition. The dividing has to stop. People should be getting the help and opportunities they need.
I am sick of hearing that "high functioning autistics say they don't want a cure but they are being selfish toward low functioning." The same old high/low function division. Low functioning people or people with types of autism from Asperger's do not deserve to die. Then there is the division of people who are disabled by accident or illness from people who were born with a condition. The dividing has to stop. People should be getting the help and opportunities they need.
09-12-2007, 10:01 PM
The Guardian blog has now been taken over by the lunatics....
09-13-2007, 01:09 PM
Looks like my post scared the lunatics off! The posts have been all good since!
09-14-2007, 08:50 AM
Yeah well it didn't last! The lunatics came back - with guess who leading the charge (no names)!! (No, not "Guess Who" on this board I hasten to point out!)
09-14-2007, 11:06 PM
Chi and Chang? Do you mean that moron who talking about Yin and Yang, WfM?
09-15-2007, 11:52 PM
No, not him although he or she rates - I was talking about the one who calls himself "Neuroinsanity".
09-16-2007, 08:02 PM
I don't know if my post made it on the page, but this is what I posted (as AuRatio):
AuRatio Wrote:
Anti-cure doesn't mean anti-support. I am autistic, and I am in speech therapy, since even though I write coherently, I rarely speak well (especially when I am to speak spontaneously, this is mostly impossible). I took until I was about 10 to be fully toilet trained, and I couldn't dress myself until I was about 8. The sound of my mother or sister making a phone call in the other room with the door shut was often a sensory overload. I scored in the bottom 8% of people my age in the Test Of Pragmatic Speech, with a social age level at <11 years, 4 months (I am 18). I was diagnosed Asperger's at age 10 through the elementary school, and my dad has some autistic traits.
Anti-cure perspective is not only by Aspies or HFA people. Look to Amanda Baggs, who is a nonspeaking, autistic woman who stims very much. She is against cure.
We do not believe that autism-related difficulties should be ignored. We believe that there should be a balance between adaptation (of the autistic person to a non-autistic society) and acceptance (of the autistic person by other people in society).
One of the myths is that autistics are constantly suffering of autism. We suffer when adults at the school, or sometimes in the home, yell in our ears thinking that we are disobeying them, when in fact we simply are not hearing or are not understanding the specific instructions given.
Just because someone isn't smiling doesn't mean the happiness isn't there. I have tremendous difficulty hugging my parents, but they have been educated as to the realities of autism, that because I do not want physical contact does not mean that I don't care, or don't love them, or am cold and aloof or simply not trying.
We are also said to be doomed to a life without friends. This is not true, although yes, it is harder for us than for others, and our friendships tend to have a different texture to them than NT relationships.
In elementary and junior high school, I never really had friends. I was beaten horribly by my peers, in fact, for my difference, for the way I rocked in history class, or needed clarification on so-called "simple" instructions that for me were incredibly vague. But the answer is not to get rid of autism, but rather to enforce the school counselors to follow the law. By law, those bullies should have been suspended (for some), expelled (for many others), or even faced criminal charges (for one or two of them). The counselor told me that if I behaved more "normally", then I wouldn't have these problems. She seemed to think that, since my test scores were high, then I must be high-functioning in all areas - and even if I could have changed, I made on that day the difficult resolve that even if I had the ability to change, and that this change would make my life so much easier, that I would not want to be anyone else.
In high school, I switched to an arts high school, where the student body was radically different from the other schools - they were incredibly accepting of differences, and when I got out of my seat in my literature class and spun around in the room, people didn't laugh at me, nor did they pity me. I was just being me, and people at the school thought it was cool - whether they knew it was in my neurological nature to behave this way, or whether they thought I was just nonconforming, I found a place where I was accepted as myself - as the person I was and wanted to be.
Nowadays, three years from when I entered the school, I have several friends, and I never make eye contact, I often break the flow of conversation with my silence, at not knowing what to say or how to say it, I rock and spin and have difficulty doing simple things unless everything is broken down into detailed instructions, I meltdown when the fire alarm rings, or when it is crowded and noisy, and my friends show me compassion just as they would if a "normal" friend had been assaulted (or insulted) and needed help, emotionally or physically. I am treated as a social equal, despite my social and speech ineptitude.
Helping an autistic person to function does not mean training him or her to make eye contact, or to stop spinning or rocking. When I do manage, to somehow, for some few seconds at a time, to make eye contact, I have an even harder time than usual in processing spoken speech. Stimming helps me to not get quite as stressed out from fluorescent lighting, or that grating buzzing sound I'm hearing now, from a machine not too distant.
Another thing that disturbs me is that much of the autism research supposedly going towards a cure is going toward the development of a pre-natal test for autism, so that parents can selectively abort their autistic children. And do not think this is just an Aspie issue.
I would be just as saddened, and disheartened, to hear that autistics who don't speak, have IQ scores in the range of mentally retarded, and who have poor self-help skills were no longer being born as if the speaking, Nobel-prize-winning Aspies were no longer being born. Functioning levels are often arbitrary, and I have heard/read things far more intelligent from some people who have IQ in the retarded range than some ignorant and stupid things I have heard/read from people with a Ph.D. in psychology. Our definitions of intelligence are flawed, as are our ideas of the inherent relationship between functioning level and value of person's existence as they are.
My two cents (whatever that means).
Anti-cure perspective is not only by Aspies or HFA people. Look to Amanda Baggs, who is a nonspeaking, autistic woman who stims very much. She is against cure.
We do not believe that autism-related difficulties should be ignored. We believe that there should be a balance between adaptation (of the autistic person to a non-autistic society) and acceptance (of the autistic person by other people in society).
One of the myths is that autistics are constantly suffering of autism. We suffer when adults at the school, or sometimes in the home, yell in our ears thinking that we are disobeying them, when in fact we simply are not hearing or are not understanding the specific instructions given.
Just because someone isn't smiling doesn't mean the happiness isn't there. I have tremendous difficulty hugging my parents, but they have been educated as to the realities of autism, that because I do not want physical contact does not mean that I don't care, or don't love them, or am cold and aloof or simply not trying.
We are also said to be doomed to a life without friends. This is not true, although yes, it is harder for us than for others, and our friendships tend to have a different texture to them than NT relationships.
In elementary and junior high school, I never really had friends. I was beaten horribly by my peers, in fact, for my difference, for the way I rocked in history class, or needed clarification on so-called "simple" instructions that for me were incredibly vague. But the answer is not to get rid of autism, but rather to enforce the school counselors to follow the law. By law, those bullies should have been suspended (for some), expelled (for many others), or even faced criminal charges (for one or two of them). The counselor told me that if I behaved more "normally", then I wouldn't have these problems. She seemed to think that, since my test scores were high, then I must be high-functioning in all areas - and even if I could have changed, I made on that day the difficult resolve that even if I had the ability to change, and that this change would make my life so much easier, that I would not want to be anyone else.
In high school, I switched to an arts high school, where the student body was radically different from the other schools - they were incredibly accepting of differences, and when I got out of my seat in my literature class and spun around in the room, people didn't laugh at me, nor did they pity me. I was just being me, and people at the school thought it was cool - whether they knew it was in my neurological nature to behave this way, or whether they thought I was just nonconforming, I found a place where I was accepted as myself - as the person I was and wanted to be.
Nowadays, three years from when I entered the school, I have several friends, and I never make eye contact, I often break the flow of conversation with my silence, at not knowing what to say or how to say it, I rock and spin and have difficulty doing simple things unless everything is broken down into detailed instructions, I meltdown when the fire alarm rings, or when it is crowded and noisy, and my friends show me compassion just as they would if a "normal" friend had been assaulted (or insulted) and needed help, emotionally or physically. I am treated as a social equal, despite my social and speech ineptitude.
Helping an autistic person to function does not mean training him or her to make eye contact, or to stop spinning or rocking. When I do manage, to somehow, for some few seconds at a time, to make eye contact, I have an even harder time than usual in processing spoken speech. Stimming helps me to not get quite as stressed out from fluorescent lighting, or that grating buzzing sound I'm hearing now, from a machine not too distant.
Another thing that disturbs me is that much of the autism research supposedly going towards a cure is going toward the development of a pre-natal test for autism, so that parents can selectively abort their autistic children. And do not think this is just an Aspie issue.
I would be just as saddened, and disheartened, to hear that autistics who don't speak, have IQ scores in the range of mentally retarded, and who have poor self-help skills were no longer being born as if the speaking, Nobel-prize-winning Aspies were no longer being born. Functioning levels are often arbitrary, and I have heard/read things far more intelligent from some people who have IQ in the retarded range than some ignorant and stupid things I have heard/read from people with a Ph.D. in psychology. Our definitions of intelligence are flawed, as are our ideas of the inherent relationship between functioning level and value of person's existence as they are.
My two cents (whatever that means).
09-19-2007, 01:18 PM
The thread has now been locked - and the last two posts are mine. Nice to see I got the last word! Mind you originally I didn't but I got the last post from Neuroinsanity (I agree WfM - very apt!) removed and quite rightly.
09-19-2007, 07:54 PM
I got a reply from my complaint about one of the posts, and they suggested I should respond with a post instead of them removing it. But its locked now anyway.
09-19-2007, 10:38 PM
Maybe you should point that out now, Amy. When I asked that the last post be removed they did say they would because it wouldn't be fair to be "left hanging" with the discussion closed - and effectively no "right of reply".