Aspies For Freedom

On my more cynical days, this what I see:

If you were to think of human experience and diversity as a scale from 1 to 100, most people are only comfortable with the range from 49 to 51. And they all think they are God's Perfect 50.

Everything that falls outside of that narrow, familiar band might as well be from some hostile planet in another galaxy. If you're a 52 you might as well be a 99. And all of mankind's Labels of Fear and Loathing await you -- sinner, freak, weirdo, deviate, sick, disabled, evil, etc. etc. etc.

Personally, anybody between 40 and 60 bores me to tears.

That's just f*ing brilliant!

apology: world's longest post ahead:

That's what this was all about? Wilky didn't take your John Best thing seriously?

Well. I'm not sure what to say. (so it will take 5,000 words to say it)

You know I consider your obsession with Best essentially delusional. Months ago, when you first posted about your fears that John Best would be elected president and take over America as Hitler did Germany, I tried to talk to you and explain that you didn't need to be fearful and angry about this inconsequential little nobody.

When it became clear to me that you had a profound psychological invested in this John Best delusional system, I dropped it. I wanted to talk you out of the beliefs because they don't make you happy -- they take up way too much of your time, and they create enormous anxiety and anger for you -- which carries over into your totally unnecessary cyber-conflicts with infidels like Wilky and all your other "enemies." (not all of them -- some of them are legitimate asses.)

I have a close friend with delusional disorder, and I know there's no way to rationally convince her that Eugene -- the 70+-year old Chinese man next door to her -- is NOT breaking into her house to put sugar in her food, kill her roses, and release her cats into the wild. She believes it; it is her reality.

Based on her beliefs, she has enlisted a couple of friends to spy on the old man, she has dragged him to court to bring legal actions against him, and she has gone throughout the neighborhood telling everyone what an evil, malicious, destructive thing the old man is. At her instigation, the poor old guy became an object of scorn, hostility, and inflamed prejudice (he's not like us) in his own neighborhood.

I understand my friend is delusional and I take that seriouly. But I can't take her delusions "seriously" as you demand Wilky and everybody take your John Best obsession. How can I? I am bound by reality, and I can no more seriously consider that Eugene is walking through the walls of Susan's house than I can believe that John Best is on the path to world domination a la Adolph Hitler.

Harsh reality: it's unreasonable to expect your views on John Best to be taken seriously because they are not reality-based. I take your obsession with him seriously, because that is real, and I wish you could be happily released from it.

What Wilky and I and so many others should have done was to just nod and walk away when you go into John Best mode. I think it's reasonable for you want your boundaries respected: "Leave me alone with my obsession and don't try to take it away from me." That's how I felt after the first couple of times I tried to explain to you that, beyond the air that he breathes, John Best barely registers on the face of this earth, and you didn't need to make yourself miserable worrying about him.

The problem was that you refused to keep your John Best thing to yourself, or to keep it relatively contained-- you became evangelical and aggressive about it, and at that point you were violating other people's boundaries, like my friend going after poor Eugene.

Like GuessWho and his  god-hates-fags obsession, you are an okay guy outside of the obsession. But when GuessWho goes into the god-hates-fags preaching, I feel like Eugene. Wilky has become your Eugene. You have a long list of Eugenes. It started with an actual evil creep (John Best) but it has expanded to target other people for their failure to comply with the dictates of your delusion. That is an unreasonable expectation on your part.

Where does it stop, and how does it stop?

You have a total right to your beliefs. Everyone does. But Wilky et al also have a right -- a right not to be thrust into Eugene's position.

I can't see why Wilky would need or want an apology from you. It doesn't seem at all necessary -- to me, your hateful attacks on her fall into the realm of "diminished capacity" because when we enter the John Best Obsession Zone, your capacity for realistic thinking is diminished.

Do I think you should apologize? Yes. For two reasons: 1) She deserves it -- and 2) anything that brings peace to you and moves you a little distance from the heat of the John Best War is good for you. But if it's just something you can't do, I don't suppose it really matters.

GuessWho, I really don't think anybody in the f'king world wants to hear another god-hates-fags word out of you. What makes it impossible for you to just shut the hell up and talk your ignorant bigoted anti-gay drivel to your fellow fundies come Sunday morning at the hate rally?

And you can take your repulsive Christofascist Militarism metaphors with you. I can't imagine a true christian (and I'm beginning to doubt you've ever met one) who would not be utterly disgusted by such a sick and persistent degradation of spirituality. Bombs, wars, mass murder -- what the hell is wrong with you?

That is sick, Chris. Absolutely disgusting. I'm an atheist and even I am offended by such a hateful and pathological depiction of god.

Chris -- that was an incredibly bigoted, stupid and homophobic thing to say. I'm an expert on "gay life"? So twisted ad homophobic. Yeah, all a *** knows is that fag stuff, right? Black people only know n****r stuff, too, I'm sure. That is the very definition of bigoted thinking. A homo is just a homo and that's all. A N**** is just a n*****. We've all seen your umpteen bitter, racist references to that "black woman" who stole the job you were "entitled" to. Hard to imagine they would hire her over you, isn't it? I mean here you are, God's Chosen Angel of Arrogant Spiritual Superiority, and what could a black woman possibly know besides "black life"?

No wonder your arrested mentality is so comfortably stuck and stagnated in a cesspool of fundamentalism. It really connects with your kind of ignorant bigotry.

God is hate! God is a weapon of *** destruction! God hates everybody! You poor, sick wretch. You think it's Jesus that puts this kind of twisted thinking in your head? You defile everything Jesus aught with such garbage.

And that leads us to the saddest thing of all. "you are not an expert on Christianity."

That's right, Chris. I'm not. I'm very far from an expert on christianity. But here's the bitter, ironic truth: I know a lot more about Christianity than you do. Because all you know is a thousand hateful distortions of what Jesus taught, and you are as utterly and absolutely ignorant of his truth as a hog in a mud puddle.

It is better to know nothing than for everything you arrogantly think you know to be so flagrantly and poisonously wrong. Jesus wouldn't recognize the degraded, blasphemous hate-mongering you "church" wallows in.

Chris, people don't think you're a fundie gay-hater because of what I say. They think it because of what you say. It's you who degrade your reputation when you go off on your God Is Hate rants. You open your mouth and it's a torrent of twisted faux-christian diarrhea. You spend so much time emerged in that hateful church and its red-neck bigots that you've lost any sense that the s*** they talk and sing and roll on the floor about is transparently hateful, if not borderline insane, out here in the "reality-based" world where facts are good enough.

Oh. Well, I guess that settles that!

Uh... the police visited you because of his behavior? I'm no fan of the police or of John Best, but... if the problem were his behavior, wouldn't the police visit him? You need to explain that one. Why did they visit you unless they had reason to see you as a problem?

-- oh, dear! Wait just a second. Let me put on my little tin hat and crawl into my fallout shelter. Okay. Much better. Proceed....

OH MY GOD, NO!!!! This reminds me of a terrible nightmare I had when I was a child. Hold me, Mommy! There was an earth quake, and a giant -- yes! A giant sock puppet arose from a rupture in the earths crust! He looked right at me, his button eyes aglow and he cried out "DELETE ALL VACCINES!!" I awoke screaming and - astonishingly -- my hair had turned quite white! I was six yeas old and my hair was white as snow. I continued to scream for several hours until my parents had me sedated. I was quite traumatized.

In other words, Timelord, what on earth are you talking about?

Not as long as I've got me tin hat on me head, and me little wooden sword beneath me pillow.

Hmmm... I should not impose my twisted view of the world on others? Damn,,, where's my Psychology 101 text book... glossary... glossary... AH HA! Here it is: Projection: Projection is one of the defense mechanisms identified by Freud and still acknowledged today. According to Freud, projection is when someone is threatened by or afraid of their own impulses so they attribute these impulses to someone else.

See, I gotta tell you, that just sounds crazy. Really. "I won't stand for it!"? Is that a threat?  How did you type that line with your little fists on your hips? Will my name be added to your Enemies List? Will your TARDIS appear in my kitchen and I'll find you sitting atop the fridge, shaking your fist at my cats, threatening to delete them?

Ah, and now as Sock Puppets and Satanists clutch each other in stark terror, a mighty alliance is born!

ROTFLMAO!

"No religious crap! You got it, Timelord!" GuessWho eagerly agreed setting his Homo-Killing-Death-Ray-Gun on Ready and wondering if his new friend Timelord had a lonely sister, "and you'll skip the paranoid delusions? Right? Right, Timelord? Hey! Hey, Timelord -- Why are you posting my name on your Enemies List? Does this mean we're not friends any more? What about your sister? Did you tell her I have a Masters Degree?"

You guys crack me up.

What was it Jonathan Swift said about "When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: ..." Hmmm.... how did that quotation end?

Well, I meant "mass destruction", but this i my favorite typo ever!!!

This could be the basis of a whole new theology!

Whatever. You preach hate in his name. Therefor, either he is hate or you are a blasphemer. Either way, i's your hate, your Jesus and your hell. Go ahead and burn in it. Nobody cares.

Another sick god=war metaphor. Do you actually talk that way with your fellow Christians? Are they similarly twisted in worship of death and destruction, or do they just look at you like you're crazy? One or the other.

Comfortable with  punishing, hating God? No, I think "comfortable" is a weak word. You love it. You wallow in it, in your sloppy one-man orgy of war and hate and destruction and hell and hate.

Okay, aside from the "Jesus and I" arrogance (and illiteracy,) and the creep-factor of you and Jesus getting "turned on" together,  do you think you're saving people? Do you think people are turning toward Christianity because of you? How wrong you are. If you are making Christianity repulsive to people, sending them away from Jesus -- and you are -- who are you serving? God or Satan?

That's good, Chris. That's perfect. I'm really glad you posted that. If anyone had any doubt of what an idiotic, pathological abortion of theology you ascribe to, I'd say that one quote clinches it.

I'm being honest here, Chris: I have been teaching English for 30 years , much of it to non-English speakers, and I can't make sense of that sentence. It's possible to imgine what you might mean, just as it's possible to look at ink blots and see butterflies, but gthe sentence as is simply makes no sense. Go back, think it through and try it again. I would love to respond to it.

Of all your self-revealing babblings of a bigoted ignoramus,  I like this one best!

This is the second time in two days that you've implied that the only thing I can be, the only thoughts I can have, the only understanding I can have, the only point of view I can have and the only values I can have are the gay thoughts, the gay understanding, the gay viewpoint and the gay values of a gay thing. You've said I have a gay life, that what I do is gay living. Now you're saying that the only thing I could possibly care about is how gay, gay, gay something is. That makes sense to you, doesn't it? What else could possibly matter to a gay thing.

Stop a minute and think about that. In your eyes, all I am, all I can be, all I can be seen as is a gay thing.

Search high and low, Chris. You will never see a more succinct picture of bigotry than your own mind. We'll talk later about how you wound up at such a pathetic and contemptible way of looking at the world.

But first lets go back to your insulting and stupid assertion that all I could possibly consider in my view of a church is (of course) "that they do not preach against gay living." We'll even pretend, for the moment, that using the term "gay living" doesn't make you sound like a fool.

IF you were capable of seeing me as anything other than just "the gay thing" you would, perhaps, piece together a little consciousness of who I am and what my values are. I know your church would disapprove, since I am just a one-dimensional non-human expression of Sin, not to be confused with a human being. But try, for a moment, to imagine that your brain is not entirely shackled and anesthetized with hate, delusion and nonsense, and imagine that you could see a gay thing as a human being. And further imagine that a "human being" is not, itself, something you despise out of fear, ignorance and the anti-human teachings in your false mockery of Christianity...

(You probably can't, and it was cruel of me to suggest you even try, but I'll carry on without you.)

There are things I care about, and they are not contradicted by a "good church."

I have dedicated my life -- or my gay life as you see it --to helping kids survive the rough world they were born into, helping them see themselves as individual treasures, helping them believe in themselves and see themselves as perfect just as they were born to be.

A good church does the same thing. In all your vomited up bible verses and orgiastic visions of God the Destroyer, I have never detected the remotest concern  for children. Not for the children we were, nor for the children who come after us. You speak occasionally of perhaps wanting to have a child in some abstract sense of ownership, subject to convenience, but kids appear to be of no concern in the war-manual of hate that you imagine the bible to be.

(And before you post a response that will make me want to slap your ratty mustache off, training up Little Soldiers for Christ is not a concern for children. Don't even go there.)

A good church does not inflict a patriarchal authoritarianism that makes children abusable objects and makes women inferior chattel. The bible you imagine to be the word of god does both, and your church has institutionalized that dehumanizing poison.

A good church is not bound by the ridiculous, crippling, indefensible, oppressive, and intellectually dishonest dogma of "scriptural inerrancy" that requires of its congregation both idiocy and hypocrisy. We need look no further than your many posts to see the tragic outcome of that sort of anti-thinking.

A good church realizes that the bible was written by flawed humans struggling to find their way toward something good and righteous. And they realize that struggle was not always successful and that some really f***ed up, destructive things got stuck in there. They don't   enshrine the ignorant racist, homophobic, misogynistic, hateful xenophobic, abusive, perverted crap in the bible, the way you do -- they don't even try to justify it. It was wrong; we know that now and we move on, taking with us what was good in the bible and trying to undo the harm done to this world by those (like you) who prefer the hateful and wrong-minded parts of it. The christians like you who comb through the bible for its most anti-human and hateful passages, and weave from that a perversion of everything Christ represents -- you are Satan's best little workers.

Erich says bad churches dwell on the abominations and insane laws of Deuteronomy, while ignoring Isaiah 61:1. Funny... Jesus quoted that one, (Luke 4:18-19) but I never hear anything like it from you, Chris. You have no use for the god in Hosea 11:8-9 -- the God who doesn't hate any more, who only loves. You have a masochistic yearning for a brutal, hateful comic-book villain of a god, mowing down heathens and ***s with the latest and most efficient military death-machines. Are you totally unfamiliar with Micah 4: 3-4? God wants an end to war. He wants peace. Only peace and eternal peace. He would be disgusted by your sick love of war and killing. Those are Satan's fantasies you're getting all hot and sweaty about and, dude, you are soooo going to hell. It's the Pharisees who were full of violence and evil. Fools, I believe Jesus called them. He told them to give their food to the poor. Let's just say there's sufficient evidence to conclude that's not what you're doing with your food.

A good church welcomes. And "welcome" does not mean a hypocritical patina of "tolerance" that covers a toxic-waste-dump of racism, classism, sexism, homophobia, anti-semitism and right-wing theocratic bigotry.

A good church extends love, authentic love without judgement -- that is the message, rather than preaching the violently war-like and destructive crap in your threads and in the perverted "Left Behind" books that were specifically and successfully designed to generate hate, fear, lots of money and theocratic fascism.

Yeah, yeah, you may sleep-read through Luke 6: 27-31 and pretend you believe it, but it's not what you practice... and as noted theologian Ziyaret said in another thread "actions speak louder than words." Hundreds and hundreds of people dying in New Orleans, thousands homeless, and families torn apart -- and as they died the Baptists were spending tens of millions of dollars to write discrimination into the Constitution, elect more Republicans,  and support an illegal invasion of a country that did us no harm.

I send my monthly Katrina relief money to the Unitarian Church, thank you. I know they're not stealing it to fund another hate-monger's election campaign. I know the Unitarians don't turn away because, well, who really cares if poor people and negroes die anyway? Jesus was all about helping the poor, again and again and again ( Luke 18: 18, 22) That was his big agenda. You know this. You know it, and you willfully ignore it. To hear the Fundies talk and to read their propaganda and to check their flow of obscene riches, you'd think Jesus spent his whole life screaming about how much he hated ***s. What a perversion of his life and his teachings. Look around your church. Look at the building itself, look at the decoration and design. Look at the clothes the good christians are wearing. Look in the parking lot.  

You have never in your life met a so-called christian with the courage, guts and humility to live an authentic christian life, not even remotely like the life Christ commanded. Because it would mean giving up the good stuff that is their true object of worship.

So ... does your church spend its time in serious contemplation of their abject failure -- no, their determined refusal -- to follow Christ's teaching?

Hell, no. They absolutely do not.  Rigorous self-examination in the harsh light of Christ's truth? F*** that. Who really cares anyway?  It's sooo much more fun to focus on other people's sins.  Does that make us hypocrites? Hell, yes, but who really cares anyway? It's not as if Jesus ever said anything about hypocrites. Right? He was cool with hypocrisy, right? It was fags he mostly talked about, right? fags? Yeah, that's it. Good Ol' Jesus -- he sure did hate them fags ! He would be so proud of us if he could see how much time, energy and money we put into hating fags.

Chris, if you have a brain in your head, you know why your phony christian comrades make such a big deal about the Sins of Sodom. Because the bunch of hypocrites are only eager to condemn sins that they themselves don't enjoy. They don't want to have sex with the same sex! (well, many of them do, but we'll talk about that another time.) How convenient! The big number one sin of all time (even though Jesus never even mentioned it) is BEING A FAG!

Greed? Hell, no, that's okay, because we are lousy with greed.

Hypocrisy? Well, no, we don't want to look too closely at that one because we're enjoying the hell out of being hypocrites.

Lust? Aw, hell no. i luuuuuv me some lust!

Wrath? Not if it means I can't slap the wife and kids around when they piss me off.

Envy?

Pride?

Sloth?

Gluttony? ...Well, I'll leave that one to you, Chris. Why are you all over this forum day in and day out with the god hates fags stuff when you could be telling us again and again, with much more authority, about the sin of gluttony? Why is that? Because  hypocrites are only eager to condemn sins that they themselves don't enjoy.


So there's the tip of an iceberg for you, pal. You want to know what I mean when I talk about "good churches" and "bad churches" or do you just want to tell me what I mean -- that all in the wide green world I know about or care about is that gay stuff. And that, ignorant gay heathen that I am, I don't know enough about christianity to open my mouth in the presence of a theological genius who says brilliant stuff like "Jesus gave His Father an excuse not to kill an awful lot of people."

You need to realize something, Chris. As you barricade yourself deeper and deeper in the bunker of lies, hypocrisy and propaganda that you have bizarrely and blasphemously mistaken for "christianity," you are required to shut down your capacity for honesty, for critical thinking and for authentic spirituality.

Every minute you spend with a head full of this garbage, you become stupider and more remote from this world and the next one. Over the months, your posts reveal the deterioration of your "thinking." That's the mortgage you're paying on your fantasy fort where you hide and wait who a hateful god who lusts to kill and punish and destroy. It is a debilitating mental illnes that you have inflicted upon yourself.

Christ would free you from it. That's the horrible, humorless irony of it all. Christ would free you from the hateful, brain-killing, spirit-shrinking, soul-crushing, life-destroying pathology that you have chosen out of deluded desperation. But you wouldn't know Christ if he walked in right now and, with a stigmatic hand, knocked that cheeseburger out of your mouth and across the room.

So, Chris. Your policy is that you can come in and dump all the hate you want on gay people as long as you call it "The Truth." Fine. I can take it. I've dealt with idiots and gay-bashers and bigots all my life.

But you need to have the balls to read my posts, too. Not hide like a gutless, brainless coward the way you did when I posted the facts about what your church has done to gay people -- and you refused six times to read, or think, or respond.

If you want to talk about "the truth" about me, you need to hear the truth about you.

Indeed...

Chris, I think it's sad that I seem to be the last person on earth who talks to you as if there were some remote possibility that you could process rational thought and actually comprehend ideas being expressed to you.

Don't you think that's sad?

But why do I do that? It's not as if it has ever worked. You just say "that's an interesting point" and then, having understood not a word, you puke up the same perseverated nonsense and pointless personal history, and not one thing I or anybody says ever makes it any farther through your impenetrable skull than a mosquito on an elephant's ***.

Believe whatever you want about how your hateful god has nothing to do but fuel your masochistic fantasies.

But believe this, too, Chris, because it is going to be crucial for you in ways you're too dense to imagine:

God never required you to run your fat mouth for months on end about gay people.

It is okay with God if you shut the f*ck up.

I am absolutely convinced that if God were to appear to you, he would tell you two things:

1) Shut the F*CK UP

2) Put down that donut

I'm neutral on the donut, but god is right about the "shut the f*ck up" thing.

You have nothing to say, and you have said it 1,000 times. You can shut up now. You can shut up.

I can remember when you were not universally viewed as a pompous, ignorant windbag. Widely, yes, but not universally.

Do you do this in real life, Chris? Do you babble on and on about god hating fags and who spoke to you once in 1988? Can you see that the result is that nobody wants to listen to you?

I want a yes or no from you.Will you stop ranting ignorant crap about gays? I want you to do this. Everybody wants you to do this. Can you?

If you can shut up about gays, we will all appreciate it. It will prove that you are not a total *** and that you can, in this small way, prevent yourself rfom acting like an obnoxious, ignorant windbag. We will appreciate your respecting other people enough to withhold your selfish need to offend them.

If you can't do that -- if you insist on your obnoxious vendetta, this is going to in a direction that will be very unhappy for you.

People have a right to come here without your homophobic crap.

Can you stop it? Yes or No.

If you can't, appropriate retaliation will begin.

Although I know that's a copy-and-paste statement and you have no idea what you're talking about, please explain (and you can feel free to copy off of a "Hate in the Name of Jesus" propaganda site if you are totally incapable of independent thought)

1. What are these half-truths?

2. In what sense have I been "fed" them?

3. Who are these malicious hypocrites?

So far, no points for you. Why do you insist on playing the "truth" game? You're really no good at it.

If all of GuessWho's anti-gay threads are locked, that would be fine. Nothing worthwhile lost.

But the onus is not on the gay people to accept the bashing.

GuessWho, I made it clear. You've gotten away with gay bashing for months. I'll stop playing your game when you stop playing it. Stop preaching against gay people and I'll happily have nothing to respond to.

I was amused that right after you posted this, we got another GuessWho post about "the homosexuals" when I have told him that referring to gay people as "homosexuals" is usually obnoxious and that it's the preferred vocabulary of homophobes.

I believe after I explained that to him (how long ago?) he said "I hear you" -- but his persistent use of the term tells me who he's really hearing.

Gee, it's good that you "hear" Ethel and WfM and CJ and move past the condescending crap.

Chris, WTF are you TALKING about? People don't compare everything in thedir lives and the next to a bunch of stupid militaristic nonsense. If you want anyone to listen to you or take you seriously at all, stop it!