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jiggeryqua Wrote:
Buddhism, for example, teaches the Eightfold Path of 'Right' livelihood, 'Right' action, 'Right' thought etc.  Christianity also offers guidance on how to behave - more rules if you count the ten commandments (any real argument with any of those?), less if you focus on the two commandments of jesus.  In fact you'll find all the world's major established religious philosophies revolve around the same kernel (not really a surprise...): "Treat other people as you would like to be treated - and honour the divine".


There are still some differences in approach. Also, some religions are more organic than others. By this, I mean to say that some religions are closer to nature and therefore more spiritual than others.

jiggeryqua Wrote:
Are you familiar with the caste system of the Indian sub-continent?  Their society establishes a powerful hierarchy of power.  The same hierarchies are patently obvious in confucionist china - find me a society that doesn't have them and I'll give you a cookie.  (I did once live in a non-hierarchical concesus community - but it was destroyed from within by some people who were nominally interested in eastern philosophies...buddhism, yoga and so on...who were keen to establish a heirarchy of power that put them above the other members).


People need structure. An organic society provides a hierarchy based on natural status : strength, intelligence and spirituallity. Other societies base their status on power or money. After Europe was converted to Christianity, it slowly degenerated from an organic society into a sesspool of materialism and decadence.

jiggeryqua Wrote:
Buddhism is connected to a patriarchal super-being (Buddha)


Buddha wasn't a super-being. He was just a normal human being with flaws like all of us. He just discovered the path to enlightenment and managed to rise above the average mortal by means of nothing but will and wisdom. Any of us can achieve the same level of enlightenment Buddha has achieved if we life a life according to the principles of Buddhism and study the books of his wisdom.

jiggeryqua Wrote:
Even Taoism considers mortals to be puny and at the mercy of the Tao


Aren't we all subservient to the rules of nature?

jiggeryqua Wrote:
it's the only religion that stops short of personifying the divine force.


What about Vedanta?

jiggeryqua Wrote:
Buddhist temples set their priests above the common herd and used tithes and donations to accrue wealth in concrete form while the unenlightened peasants starved.


Where and when was this great starvation?

Ian Wrote:

pikajedi4 Wrote:
still a fairy tale, told to keep the peasants in line..


And your Paganism is "real" is it, Richard? good Gods grow up.


Why can't his paganism/heathenism (let's not get into semantics here) be real? With influences from Taoism, Shintoism, Wotanism, shamanism, Vedanta and various other religions, I could consider myself a pagan too. I can't speak for pikajedi4, but my spirituality comes not just from the mind but from the very core of my existence. It feels instinctively right, as if every cell of my body is excited. The closer you get to the core of Vedic or Eddic knowledge, the closer you feel to the Brahman (the "all") itself.

Has anyone ever heard of Integral Traditionalism? I'm personally very much inspired by these fellows.

jiggeryqua Wrote:
At any rate, there are people whose coherent, intelligent arguments in favour of various forms of anarchism, concensus or co-operation appeal to me more than your assumption against them.  Consider the Quakers, for example, any of whom is superior to you, in your terms.


Personally, I greatly admire traditional imperial Japan, viking society, Inca society, Imperial Rome, ancient Egypt, ... All these were empires or kingdoms with a clear hierarchic structure and a somewhat organic structure. Yet, I also admire the Greek city states, Amish society (in spite of being Christian), Native American society or other societies that form a mixture between classic democracy and low level hierarchy. They must be some sort of structure to hold society together, but the extent and power of that structure may differ.

jiggeryqua Wrote:
You say Buddha wasn't a 'super-being' - then claim he rose above ordinary mortals.  If you're going to use words to mean whatever you want them to mean whenever you use them then there is very little point continuing this.


I'm just saying that every one of us has the potential to rise to the level of Buddhist, when living the right kind of life. Buddha was just a mere mortal who rose above himself.

jiggeryqua Wrote:
We may or may not be subservient to the rules of nature - aren't you arguing with yourself here?


I'm not arguing with myself. I KNOW that we are subservient to the rules of nature. Non-appliance of those rules is possible, but inevitably leads to decay.

jiggeryqua Wrote:
That tends to happen when you abandon an unclear and ill-thought-out position in favour of desperately trying to pick holes in the arguments of another.


I guess that's a feeling you know better than I.

jiggeryqua Wrote:
Vedanta is wide open to interpretation, but the most common schools identify 'god' as Vishnu or Krishna (a personification of the divine force).


I was referring specifically to the Advaita Vedanta, where the Supreme Cosmic Spirit or Brahman is the One, the whole and the only reality, the "all". It is the big ocean of essence of which we and everything else in existence is a tiny drop.

jiggeryqua Wrote:
Priests of all faiths and persuasions have kept the peasant classes underfoot everywhere throughout history.  Peasants have starved (and continue to starve) all over the world while the priestly classes sat in their lavish temples living it up on sacrifices and tithes.


Christian society is not the first to decay, if that's what you're saying. Ancient Egypt is no more, the Greek city states are gone and Cleopatra's Egypt has similarly disappeared. As Spengler pointed out in his literature, every culture has its peaks and its path of decline, after which it is doomed to exist only in history books. Yet, when we look at every civilisation when they were at their peaks, we see a similarity in structure, in ideas and in their art. We see a similar sort of cohesion and inequality, we see a similar sort of decidation and willpower. People in all layers of society really love their way of life and they feel like they're contributing to something far beyond their own individual powers. If we want a better future for our children, than that sort of society is what we should try to achieve. Eastern philosophy is likely to bring you far closer to such a way of life than any Abrahamic faith.

pikajedi4 Wrote:
yes, that'll do for an explaination.

I follow the teachings of the Asatru religion.
I did try Wicca, but I just felt silly.
and I dont believe in gods.

The Nine Noble Virtues and a brief summary


You're an esoteric Asatruar, eh? The more I read about you, the more I think we would get along quite well if we knew each other in real life. We obviously have quite a few things in common Smile

I don't limit myself to Asatru (partially because there is too little literature about it), but it is nevertheless an obvious inspiration.

pikajedi4 Wrote:
yes, that'll do for an explaination.

I follow the teachings of the Asatru religion.
I did try Wicca, but I just felt silly.
and I dont believe in gods.

The Nine Noble Virtues and a brief summary


Another great inspiring religion...

atypical Wrote:
Vedanta, Shia Islam, Christianity , Wicca...


Personally, I feel a bit disappointed about Wicca. It seems little more than a New Age hack of ancient beliefs. Asatru is much closer to the actual views of the ancients, although there is too little literature about it to really know how close exactly Asatru is to orriginal teachings.

atypical Wrote:
I don't intend to intrude, just wanted to say that seraching is good, but finding is better, particularly if you relaize that what you found was always in you.


I know exactly what you mean.

atypical Wrote:
Meditation is part of being spiritual - no matter what religion or principles of nature you ascrbie to, because it is only when you are quiet and seeking knowledge, that a spirit can become inspired. (In my opinion) .  


There are different ways. Contemplating the universe with your eyes wide open while looking at the different constellations can be just effective as any meditation session or prayer. How you achieve enlightenment, is quite a personal thing.

atypical Wrote:
Being hated for being  or for thinking or for searching for who you really are or for believing in a particular way is a crime against the principles of nature.  Even in my Catholic religion, that many seem to want to hate because of some of the Added On Distractions, the main premises are to LOVE and to be thankful for our most precious gift, in my belief G*d given,  Freedom, freedom to believe, or not.  
By the way, my youngest daughter had her 1st communion today feeling particualrly thankful and spiritual.


I was raised a catholic and even became an altar boy for many years, but the more I learned about Christianity the more questions I had. When I finally gave up Christianity at the age of 17, the world made a lot more sense. That's probably the main reason why I'm not so fond of that religion.

aliengirl Wrote:
Hi,

Was just pottering about on the internet and found the comments at the end of this post:

http://autismdiva.blogspot.com/2007/01/h...dults.html

and I also found this blog:

http:// hating autism . blogspot .com/2006/07/2006-neurodiversity-roster-cant-tell.html]http://hatingautism. blogspot.com/2006/07/2006-neurodiversity-roster-cant-tell.html

Why do people hate us so much?
I don't understand Sad

Because people fear the unknown,and we are the unknown,but if we stay committed to our inner strengths they will learn their fears were unfounded.

tammylivingston Wrote:
Because people fear the unknown,and we are the unknown,but if we stay committed to our inner strengths they will learn their fears were unfounded.

aliengirl Wrote:
Hi,

Was just pottering about on the internet and found the comments at the end of this post:

http://autismdiva.blogspot.com/2007/01/h...dults.html

and I also found this blog:

http:// hating autism . blogspot .com/2006/07/2006-neurodiversity-roster-cant-tell.html]http://hatingautism. blogspot.com/2006/07/2006-neurodiversity-roster-cant-tell.html

Why do people hate us so much?
I don't understand Sad

how did that come up so many times? I am just learning to chat.  What did I do to many times?
how did that come up so many times? I am just learning to chat.  What did I do to many times?
As an NT, I can toss in my two cents (give my opinion) and say that many NTs are utterly intimidated by the way some people's minds work. They are confused and afraid of someone potentially being much better than them at Math or having a far better vocabulary. They don't realize that certain people's minds work differently, and you shouldn't be ashamed or intimidated by it.

Unfortunately so... certain individuals like Cleve Blakemore give the entire Aspie community a very bad internet image. For instance: publicly speaking about how he is mentally and physically superior to every being on Earth, and constantly trolling NTs with hollow arguments and ad hominems. He has an amazing vocabulary and can pull from a very large variety of subjects, but he is a racist, self-obsessed, bigoted ****. After my encounter with that **** at RPGCodex, I can practically understand why some of these people are afraid of Aspies.

Not that one should attribute his behavior to Asperger's, of course. First off, we don't even know if he really has AS.. He could be lying, and judging by his ability to lie profusely, I'd say he is. He actually attributes his amazing "abilities" to the sole fact that: A) He is genetically perfect (I.E. White)   B) He has Asperger's


It's sad, but the image most internet-goers see of Asperger's/Autism is people that think they are 'better' than NTs. This probably leads to an intense focus on the social problems that are created, as NTs feel some sort of need to preserve their ego by attacking Aspie's weaknesses.

My advice as an NT is to just ignore it. That is your key to surviving the internet, and maybe even real life these days. The moment you invest yourself into some pointless argument or someone else's bigoted views, bad things will happen. Stay on the outside looking (and shooting) in, and you'll be fine.




As for NTs making fun of people for being 'socially inept', blame MTV.

DefJam101 Wrote:
Unfortunately so... certain individuals like Cleve Blakemore give the entire Aspie community a very bad internet image. For instance: publicly speaking about how he is mentally and physically superior to every being on Earth, and constantly trolling NTs with hollow arguments and ad hominems. He has an amazing vocabulary and can pull from a very large variety of subjects, but he is a racist, self-obsessed, bigoted ****. After my encounter with that **** at RPGCodex, I can practically understand why some of these people are afraid of Aspies.


I never heard of this Cleve Blakemore fellow, so I can't comment on him. I can say, though, that I consider the vast majority of NTs (not all) to be utterly shallow and prejudiced, which is quite frustrating. Trying to find an NT to discuss in depth about politics, psychology, philosophy or related topics without them showing any sort of prejudice or without them getting enough of it after half an hour is almost impossible... and if you find one who does enjoy such discussions, they usually lack some basic information (because they filter away a lot of information they incorrectly regard as irrelevant or uninteresting).

If you add this to the fact that many Aspies went through hell in high school for no other reason but not having the necessary social instincts to survive in that jungle, it's quite easy to start hating NTs and becoming so arrogant that you won't even listen to their arguments. I understand that such individuals might frighten you, but you have to understand that it can take quite an effort not to become like that after you've been treated like s*** for years by shallow and prejudiced NTs. I consider myself a very sociable and mentally stable person, but during my last years in high school I was at the virge of snapping. I don't know what I would have been capable of if I actually had snapped.

DefJam101 Wrote:
It's sad, but the image most internet-goers see of Asperger's/Autism is people that think they are 'better' than NTs. This probably leads to an intense focus on the social problems that are created, as NTs feel some sort of need to preserve their ego by attacking Aspie's weaknesses.


You're probably right about this when you're referring to the sub-culture of people actually familiar with AS. I'm pretty sure most NTs never even heard of AS to begin with.

I personally wouldn't say that I or Asperger's in general are better than NTs. Like everyone else, Aspies have their flaws and their gifts that seperates them from other mortals. The problem with supremacists is that most of the time they focus on their own gifts and the other's flaws, while they rarely do it the other way around. This creates a feeling of superiority, which often leads to arrogance. It's said, but definitely not a character trait confined to Aspies. I've encountered numerous NTs with similar traits.

DefJam101 Wrote:
My advice as an NT is to just ignore it. That is your key to surviving the internet, and maybe even real life these days. The moment you invest yourself into some pointless argument or someone else's bigoted views, bad things will happen. Stay on the outside looking (and shooting) in, and you'll be fine.


I don't think that people with AS should come out as Aspies anywhere besides the Aspie community. The Internet makes many of the Aspie's social flaws irrelevant and allows him to mask his AS much better than in real life. As such, it is the ideal way to socialise with NTs incognito and get to know them in a different way. Aspies might learn that not all NTs are douchebags and they might even find themselves a husband or a wife. When constantly parading with the AS-label all over the Internet, I don't see that happening.

DefJam101 Wrote:
As for NTs making fun of people for being 'socially inept', blame MTV.


That's rubbish. People have probably been bullying other people since the dawn of man. I'm not sure why MTV has anything to do with it.

Lucie1 Wrote:
It doesn't have to be that the hated becomes the hater.
Sometimes it helps to think the people that put you down are idiots.
Actually I can see there is likely to be truth in this thought.


The problem is that the mere realisation that those people are idiots easily leads to some sort of supremacism and supremacism combined with bad experiences with other people easily lead to hate.

quickduck Wrote:
I think group size is a factor. Horizontal, even egalitarian structures work very well for small groups; but once a group gets bigger (say 150 people) this structure functions less well;


Not just group size plays along, but also the understanding of the group with regards to the subject in question. A group of 20 morons will probably make far worse decisions than a group of 300 geniuses. Similarly, a group of 100 factory workers is likely to know better what's needed in the factory they work in than a handful of desk clerks who never set even set foot near the production line.

Basically, "democracy" according to the classic Greek or Icelandic model works only in very specific circumstances. In all other cases, at least some form of non-elected hierarchy is needed to keep things running.

IlluSionS667 Wrote:

DefJam101 Wrote:
As for NTs making fun of people for being 'socially inept', blame MTV.


That's rubbish. People have probably been bullying other people since the dawn of man. I'm not sure why MTV has anything to do with it.


It was a bit of a joke. MTV generally enforces stereotypes of people through "reality"-TV shows. People (in the high teens/twenties, the majority of the internet population) watch this trash and get ideas about how people are 'supposed' to be. They never learn to appreciate differences in people, to the point of becoming afraid of them. This prompts people to bully/hate them.


Obviously MTV is not the sole responsibility for this. There are many factors that contribute to this unfortunate occurrence. Bottom line is that people are afraid to be different, afraid of those who are different, and hate whatever they are afraid of. What exactly is causing this, I cannot say.

DogBrain Wrote:

DefJam101 Wrote:
Unfortunately so... certain individuals like Cleve Blakemore give the entire Aspie community a very bad internet image. For instance: publicly speaking about how he is mentally and physically superior to every being on Earth, and constantly trolling NTs with hollow arguments and ad hominems. He has an amazing vocabulary and can pull from a very large variety of subjects, but he is a racist, self-obsessed, bigoted ****. After my encounter with that **** at RPGCodex, I can practically understand why some of these people are afraid of Aspies.


Certain individuals like John the Crack Dealer give the entire black community a very bad image.  For instance:  Publicly dressing in tasteless bling and bragging about how he is sexually superior to every white man on earth, and constantly selling crack cocaine and forcing his girlfriends to turn tricks for him.  I can practically understand why some people are afraid of blacks.

Yup, it's just as valid, isn't it?


I never said that this was a valid line of reasoning.

I said that, to many (stupid) people, this is a valid line of reasoning.

Korrigan Wrote:
Thank you for not writing me off...I like you Smile

I think that lumping people into categories based on their skin color, their place of birth, the way their mind functions, is always dangerous.  No one person can fit every mold.  Thank goodness!


Aye, people these days are brought up from the beginning to think in nothing but groups, categories, and generalizations.

Christian/Islam/Jewish/Atheist/Agnostic/Democratic/Republican/Independent/Liberal/Conservative/Smart/Dumb/Sexy/Ugly/White/Black/Asian/Hispanic/Rich/Poor/etc.

No one ever refers to someone as just a person anymore.

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