This is happening because ASD's are being treated as a bad thing. Thank you, Andrew Wakefield!!
What I want to know is "What defines anti-social"? What have the twins done wrong? The point is - do they know? I'll bet they don't because it's been assumed that they should and they have refused to listen - hence the order. That's not the way to go about dealing with Aspies you twits!
This expert witness may actually help. He or she may actually provide evidence to prove there is NO link between criminality and autism - or he or she may provide evidence to show that an order like this would be useless and in fact have the opposite effect to it's intention (ie it would be ignored BUT not to the point that present matters would become worse which is what I assume the cops are insinuating). That would actually kill the ASBO quick smart as it should.
Having said that though, the ADHD aspect may be a tougher aspect to defend. Unfortunately there is a lot of evidence of violence associated with ADHD. I think that would be the bigger concern.
It's funny; this article is about criminality and autism, but they don't really give any links between them. I think it shows how governments don't care about people, but in keeping people in the system.
I'm not saying any of this is true but I read this.
http://apt.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/full/10/5/341
Box 5 Characteristic features of Asperger syndrome that predispose to criminal offending
An innate lack of concern for the outcome can result in, for example, an assault that is disproportionately intense and damaging. Individuals often lack insight and deny responsibility, blaming someone else; this may be part of an inability to see their inappropriate behaviour as others see it.
An innate lack of awareness of the outcome that allows individuals to embark on actions with unforeseen consequences; for example, fire-setting may result in a building’s destruction, and assault in death.
Impulsivity, sometimes violent, can be a component of comorbid ADHD or of anxiety turning into panic.
Social naïvety and the misinterpretation of relationships can leave the individual open to exploitation as a stooge. Their limited emotional knowledge can lead to a childish approach to adult situations and relationships, resulting, for example, in the mistaking of social attraction or friendship for love.
Misinterpreting rules, particularly social ones, individuals find themselves unwittingly embroiled in offences such as date rape.
Difficulty in judging the age of others can lead the person into illegal relationships and acts such as sexual advances to somebody under age.
Overriding obsessions can lead to offences such as stalking or compulsive theft. Admonition can increase anxiety and consequently a ruminative thinking of the unthinkable that increases the likelihood of action.
In formal interviews, misjudging relationships and consequences can permit an incautious frankness and the disclosure of private fantasies which, although no more lurid than any adolescent’s, are best not revealed.
Lacking motivation to change, individuals may remain stuck in a risky pattern of behaviour.
theosoph, that is fascinating and disturbing. I really want to know what people think of this...
My thoughts on that;
The theory behind this is unfortunately quite sound. That's a worry for a start.....
BUT!
This is actually an example of what can happen when an ASD is treated incorrectly. So the solution is to get the treatment right - and not be glib with it as has been done in the past. Education for a start. I mean for example, if an ASD child is getting bullied at school and there's no proper education as to how to handle it - the child may end up playing the logical tit for tat. It also affects their education in that they may get expelled and get a reputation for acting in what amounts to self defence. If you get my meaning there.
It all boils down to the buzz word - understanding and tolerance. Such scenarios as what has been quoted above are possible without it - and that's downright frightening because it's bad for those of us in the majority who don't do this sort of thing.
No DX definitely doesn't help!
This conclusion is as bad as assuming a criminal predisposition based on the race of prison populations because it ignores environment, treatment by parents/peers, lack of ethical/social training and unfair processing once in the criminal justice system.
Woman from Mars: The idea of police giving Aspies help in communicating is a brilliant way to level the playing field once they enter the criminal justice system! That is the kind of forward thinking that we need...
He or she may actually provide evidence to prove there is NO link between criminality and autism
While the very vast majority of us are law abiding citizens, it is obvious that society's attitude towards autistics drives some autistics towards criminal behaviour.Therefore, there IS a link between autism and criminality - the link is SOCIETY'S ATTITUDE TOWARDS AUTISTICS.
I have speed read the whole article & have saved it to read at my leisure, will comment further when I have.
I do have an AS nephew who keeps being in trouble with the police & courts, so I have a vested interest.
Check out the whole article at Theo's link. Some of it seems a little questionable, but there's also a lot to consider.
The "autism = criminality" meme has already gotten out of hand (especially post-Cho) but Theo's link shows some valid concerns on how Auties may have trouble negotiating the social-legal terrain.
My initial reaction to X=criminality is always "bull s***!" because I've seen that linkage abused, misused, exaggerated and used to discriminate. I've posted several "news" articles where that sort of idiotic smearing has happened. But I don't necessarily think that's what the article Theosoph linked to is doing.
We've all looked extensively at how AS affects social situations, relationships, employment, etc. It's also important to look at how AS does (and does NOT) lead to difficulties in the context of the complex and recondite legal system.
I understand there are many aspects of ADHD (my own primary area of neuro-UNtypicality) that may lead to problems with the law, just as they can lead to problems in a classroom or a workplace or a relationship. That's not saying ADHD = criminality. It's just recognizing that the legal system -- like all social constructs -- was made for and by a neurotytpical population, and there are therefor ways in which it is a bad fit for neurodiverse people.
The real danger in examining this issue is when it all gets dumbed down by the media and the mob to "Them autistic guys are criminals!"
Why is anyone shocked that there are "bad" people who are autistic? People are people.
That's certainly true, which is why it's so damn wrong to judge a whole population based on isolated incidents like Cho or whoever.
But what I see in the Theosoph link is that good autistic people can also wind up in legal trouble -- possibly HUGE legal trouble -- just because they may not "read" a situation or a person in the way an NT-based law expects them to.
This conclusion is as bad as assuming a criminal predisposition based on the race of prison populations because it ignores environment, treatment by parents/peers, lack of ethical/social training and unfair processing once in the criminal justice system.
You know of course, that this does happen. Black people are more likely to be stopped and harassed by police. At least we aspies can't be ided in this way.
He or she may actually provide evidence to prove there is NO link between criminality and autism
While the very vast majority of us are law abiding citizens, it is obvious that society's attitude towards autistics drives some autistics towards criminal behaviour.Therefore, there IS a link between autism and criminality - the link is SOCIETY'S ATTITUDE TOWARDS AUTISTICS.
That's one link, Ken - I agree. Indeed - in recent times there have been a couple of people I've wanted to just go over and bash the daylights out of them. But I'm smarter than that.
Quotes from the article:
"Asperger's sufferers have a tendency to focus intensely on areas of interest,...
ADHD is characterized by a persistent pattern of inattention ..."
So how the hell can anyone genuinely have both conditions? Would anyone like to explain that to me?
I suspect that what we have here are a pair of intellectually disabled people given the label "ADHD" as a nice-sounding euphemism for sub-normal intelligence.
I thought Judas Priest, Marilyn Manson, violent video games and pornography was the missing link of criminality. Rewind a few hundred years ago it was the work of the devil.
I say no element of society is immune from committing of crime. I also say that if you look hard enough you will find autistic criminals or autistics that have committed crimes. Would there be a link? I don't think so. I would not even say the percentage of the autistic population would be as great as the non-autistic population.
My take on when someone is accused of a crime and autistic is a big, SO....? I don't hear though in the media "Man accused of mass murder believed to be neurotypical", "Neurotypical woman released on bond".
This is a concern. By flagging the autism or Asperger's syndrome they are not so subtlety leading the uninformed public to question whether there is a causal effect. That is not right.
I'm not saying any of this is true but I read this.
http://apt.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/full/10/5/341
Box 5 Characteristic features of Asperger syndrome that predispose to criminal offending
An innate lack of concern for the outcome can result in, for example, an assault that is disproportionately intense and damaging. Individuals often lack insight and deny responsibility, blaming someone else; this may be part of an inability to see their inappropriate behaviour as others see it.
An innate lack of awareness of the outcome that allows individuals to embark on actions with unforeseen consequences; for example, fire-setting may result in a building’s destruction, and assault in death.
Impulsivity, sometimes violent, can be a component of comorbid ADHD or of anxiety turning into panic.
Social naïvety and the misinterpretation of relationships can leave the individual open to exploitation as a stooge. Their limited emotional knowledge can lead to a childish approach to adult situations and relationships, resulting, for example, in the mistaking of social attraction or friendship for love.
Misinterpreting rules, particularly social ones, individuals find themselves unwittingly embroiled in offences such as date rape.
Difficulty in judging the age of others can lead the person into illegal relationships and acts such as sexual advances to somebody under age.
Overriding obsessions can lead to offences such as stalking or compulsive theft. Admonition can increase anxiety and consequently a ruminative thinking of the unthinkable that increases the likelihood of action.
In formal interviews, misjudging relationships and consequences can permit an incautious frankness and the disclosure of private fantasies which, although no more lurid than any adolescent’s, are best not revealed.
Lacking motivation to change, individuals may remain stuck in a risky pattern of behaviour.
Sounds to me like like neurotypical group mind stuff. I'm reminded of of Michel Foucault.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Foucault