Aspies For Freedom

The Mormon Church depends completely on sending bainwashed young men out into the world to lie through thier teeth in a charming way. In other words, it's an "NT" job.

Since Aspies are not good at lying and don't meet the All-American Mormon standards for "charming," they are hidden in the back, washing dishes.

If it's any consolation, the Mormons also hate black people, gay people, and anyone they don't see as a source of money and power.

I would not like to go door to door trying to talk to strangers about God or stand on street corners offering literature to people.  I would rather wash dishes or do something else.  Getting to do some mission work that he is comfortable and good at should be right for him.  

I knew a man who was a Mormon bishop and he was black.  

I think you are full of something poopy.

But that's the crux of bigotry, isn't it? Blindly clinging to and propagating negative stereotypes based on the behavior/beliefs of a few to justify self-righteous hatred of an entire group of people.

They would probably be more capable of love without all that sick biblical nonsense screwing up their minds. And less prone to hate. Meanwhile, I'm waiting to hear what inaccuracies I posted.

N_I, that's not fair! Give the Mormons a little credit. Mormonism is every bit as much of a scam as Scientology.

If your defense is that the Book of Mormon is no more hateful and ridiculous than the bible, that's pretty weak tea.

Yes, of course most "holy" books tend toward the brutal, the stupid and the laughable. But at least the bible has the excuse that it was written by a bunch of pre-rational superstition-ridden tribesmen. The Book of Mormon was just pulled from the ass of a convicted con-man -- a professional liar -- after the Age of Enlightenment.

Tell me what I said that's inaccurate, 7oclock, otherwise you're just spewing your personal misery again.

If you're right twice a day, it's unfortunate that those times never coincide with your urge to post.

"Blindly clinging to and propagating negative stereotypes based on the behavior/beliefs of a few to justify self-righteous hatred of an entire group of people."

Oh. I misunderstood. You're talking about how the Mormons propagate negative stereotypes to justify self-righteous hatred toward gays, blacks, etc.

Sorry. This is one time you're right.

That makes no sense. They're certainly not my teachings. They are the teachings of the Mormon church.

People who want to be religious and not racist and homophobic should find non-racist, non-homophobic churches. They do exist. What is it about the racist, homophobic churches that attract people? When people choose such bigoted churches, they are responsible for that choice. "Tolerant" religious people prefer tolerant churches -- United Church of Christ, Unitarians, Quakers, Metropolitan Community Church, etc.

But I'm under no obligation to pretend the intolerant churches are not intolerant. No one has  said that I'm not telling the truth, just that they would prefer that truth not be spoken.

Sorry. If the Mormons want to lie about me, I can at least tell the truth about them.

Clarification: Rash generalizations against a group of people based on the actions/beliefs of a few is stereotyping, which is a form of bigotry - especially if you use that negative stereotype to justify your hatred.  

Mormons can be bigots - but so can those who demonize all Mormons based on the bigotry of a few.

The mormons superficially altered their official race-hatred the same way they superficially rejected their essential tenant of polygamy -- they got a handy "revelation" when it became politically and economically expedient to them. Their admitting blacks, for example, came in response to black collegiate athletes boycotting matches against notoriously racist Brigham Young University. Blacks on the BYU basketball team? Okay. "The highest degree of celestial glory"? Only if they've gotten one of those self-serving revelations since last time I looked.

Someone said? The Book of Mormon said. Joseph Smith said. Brigham Young said. The Mormon Church said.

Absolutely not true. http://www.waltermartin.org/slavery.html#slave
The black "servants" of Joseph Smith were sealed to continue serving Smith's family for all eternity. All eternity serving their master. Nice afterlife. Most of the early Mormons were Northerners and often anti-slavery, but Smith wrote in favor of slavery and "indentured servitude" of the inferior and loathsome black race.

Journalist Horace Greeley interviewed Brigham Young and got this response:

HG: What is the position of your church with respect to slavery?

BY: We consider it of divine institution and not to be abolished until the curse pronounced on Ham shall have been removed from his descendants.

The witch trials saga is constantly used by Mormons to defame Christians. Usually they speak of the Salem witch trials, in which 15 - 20 people were executed.

Curiously the Mormons are silent about their own Mountain Medow Massacre. Mormons robbed and murdered over 120 members of a wagon train headed for California and blamed it on Indians. Rather than excommunicating them, the church hierarchy covered for them. Federal authorities were only able to convict one of the Mormon perpetrators. It wasn't until the Oklahoma City bombing that a greater mass murder happened in the US.

I have no personal interest in individual Mormons. They are brainwashed and deluded, and that is sad. What I am talking about is the teachings and values of the Mormon Church. If all the individual Mormons could be freed from their mindless conformity to their "religion" I would be very happy for them.

He can do whatever he wants. But perhaps he will look more realistically at his church's bigotry and decide whether those prejudices are congruent with his own beliefs. If he wants to accept their teachings and believe that blacks are inferior and gay people are satanic, he will be happy with his church's bigotry. If he does not share their hateful attitudes, perhaps he will move on to a more evolved spiritual view.

Except for things like:

    * 1 Nephi 12:23

          "And I beheld, after they had dwindled in unbelief they became a dark and loathsome and a filthy people, full of idleness and all manner of abominations."

Yes, they did. The one they had sealed to be their servant for time and all eternity was Jane Manning, an African-American woman from Nauvoo.

Pay attention. There have been two references in this thread alone. It's part of the "We get persecuted, but they are worse than us" defense.

I spent years in a Mormon community. I've had Mormon friends and ex-Mormon friends. I've read extensively about the LDS. You may be unhappy with what I'm saying, but I'm not lying and I'm not speaking out of ignorance. (Hey, that reminds me of the Mormon practice of "Lying for the Lord" -- should we discuss that one?)

See, there's that "We get persecuted, but they are worse than us" thing again. It's a little difficult to say you don't consider yourselves superior to Christians when you think you'll become God when you die.

As for the brainwashing, here's a representative quote from the officially sanctioned church magazine:

"When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they propose a plan--it is God's Plan. When they point the way, there is no other which is safe. When they give directions, it should mark the end of controversy, God works in no other way. To think otherwise, without immediate repentance, may cost one his faith, may destroy his testimony, and leave him a stranger to the kingdom of God."

Not exactly a primer on Critical Thinking, is it?

The only thing I've "attributed" to nokuthula is a limited knowledge of Mormon teachings and the general delusions that her church (and to a considerable extent) all religions require. What I have discussed is the bigotry intrinsic to Mormon teachings.


As GuessWho said, when you accept a particular religion,, you accept its teachings and beliefs. It's not an afternoon at the mall. If you belong to a racist, sexist, homophobic church, you have to examine your own attitudes and decide if that church is right for you. You can't just pretend those things don't exist. You have free will and you're not being held at gun point.  It's not necessary to belong to a church with those values. There are churches that don't promulgate sexism, racism and homophobia.

Thousands of people leave the Mormon church as they come to understand more about the church's bigotry. I left the Baptist church for similar reasons.

Being a member of a church is not an immutable characteristic like gender, race, neurostatus or sexual orientation. It's a choice. Don't like bigotry toward women, blacks, neurodiverse or gay people? Choose a faith that doesn't discriminate and inculcate prejudices. But if you choose to belong to a bigoted church, you are responsible for that choice.

For the person who originally started this thread --- Mormons are taught that they should not date or marry someone outside their church -- so unless you are Mormon or want to become one --  this guy is likely to not be around long.  -- unless he quits being a Mormon.  Is his family Mormon?  If they are, it is likely that he will not quit being Mormon.  

I have never found any religion that did not have bigots or totally stupid people in it.  But there are some good people in most every organization.  Religion should make people better but they have to start somewhere.

As GuessWho said, that's what many (most?) christians believe.

There's a huge effort to change public perception of the Mormon Church and to define it as a mainstream Christian denomination. The broad perception of the Mormon church as a slightly crazy or suspiciously dangerous cult limits the political power the church craves.

Basically, that's been the church's history. "End" polygamy to get statehood. Allow blacks into the priesthood to appease increasing public intolerance of racism. So many "revelations" in the service of public relations.

Most interesting was their distancing from the word "Mormon" itself and the emphasis on "LDS" -- now the current plan is to move away from even  that reference to "Latter Day Saints" and to simply refer to it as "the Church" or "The Church of Jesus Christ." (I anticipate some christian fundamentalist resistance to that...)