Aspies For Freedom

What does it "feel" like to be NT?

When you look into another person's eyes, is that some way of sending telepathic messages across the remaining space?

Why do you stand so close to each other?

Or kiss people who aren't your significant other?

Nyanchan! Great thread idea! It has the potential for huge amounts of NT-bashing so I encourage everyone to refrain from this because I think we could all get some really interesting informations and discussions from this.
I have often wondered about how NT's "pick up" communication that is non-verbal and concrete. It has always seemed telepathic.

Any NT people up for discussion? I would really appreciate your perspectives too!

It is a great idea for the thread...although I'm not sure how many NTs we have on AFF.

So it might be like asking a room full of bald people what its like to have hair.

I know at least one. LOL

I'm certainly "NT enough" to explain a bit about eye communication.  In my experience, it works only if the participants have all been paying attention to the same information, and if they are "on the same page" as far as understanding that information.  For example: if I am in a room with another person and a third person is talking on and on in a boring or obnoxious way, the other person and I may look at each other and raise eyebrows, roll our eyes or open our eyes wide like deer in the headlights, as if to say, "OMG, will he ever shut up?!"  Maybe only one of us will make the eye gesture and the other will smile in agreement.  If we agree that the third person is annoying, the exchange of eye communication can be a fun mini-conversation.  Even if I have not been paying attention to the third person's rant and don't know exactly what the second person is eye-gesturing about, I will understand the intention behind the gesture, and I'll assume that the second person is exasperated about something.  On the other hand, if I happen to like the third person and to disagree with the second person's opinion of him, I may answer the eye-roll or other exasperated gesture with a half-hearted smile, signifying "Well, I don't think he's that bad, but I like you too, even if I disagree with you."  (Not everyone would offer a smile under those circumstances; some people might confront or snub the eye-roller out of loyalty to the person being eye-rolled about, but I prefer not to get into confrontations over petty things; my uneasy smile is my way of conveying dissent without getting into an unnecessary and disruptive argument.)  Anyway, the "telepathy" of eye communication is not perfect, it works best if all the participants know what is going on, but even if I don't know why someone is annoyed/upset/amused or whatever else, I can at least guess at his emotional state by reading his eyes. 
 

*craftily conceals eyes behind shades*  

I know there are some (Mums for the most part) who post here regularly.

Nyanchan - Do you ever get a feeling from knowing you have said the wrong thing - you can tell by a person's eyes and the expression in them - that you have said the wrong thing. I can also read fear in peoples eyes.
I guess this is reading people without the need for words.

I read body language very badly. Wish I didn't. I think the "telepathic thing is very pertinent to this. I read words and concrete representation of words very well. Body language, eye contact and messages and abstract representations VERY poorly. I do work on it but am very remedial and accept this.

Sorry for delay Nyanchen. I wanted to reflect on it a bit to give you the best answer I could.




The eyes are the gateway to the soul.
-   Herman Melville

The quote is somewhat true.  Eyes are expressive. They are one of the most emotive parts of the entire human anatomy. They hold the unspoken word... I can see your joy or pain.,disappointment, anger, whether you are holding back…  they can be warm and friendly or cold and foreboding. I can tell whether you are lying (there is actually a subtle change in movement the eye makes when one is telling a lie…. I would reference similarity  to the recent thread where someone posted a link to site that tested whether you could tell the difference between a genuine vs. planned smile. There, each involved the use of different facial muscles.  With the eye it is an ever so brief unconscious movement).  I can gauge your sincerity, whether you are truly feeling the emotion the rest of your body is portraying. There need not even be an intention to communicate with the eyes, such as that described by Couldbecousin in her post.. Even without intention, the eyes are generally good indication of one’s subconscious thought.

This is not to say that the cues can not be manipulated, only that most people do not make  an effort to do so. Rather they are more likely to simply look away as means of hiding what might be revealed within their eyes. (This of course, is generality offered with reference to Neurotypical behavior not AS. Your reasons for not making and maintaining eye contact differ, both from NT and as individual AS)

Making eye contact involves an invitation to connect and interact. I have one friend whose eyes literally sparkle with her internal beauty and openness as person..  I know another gentleman who intentionally teaches and tells his children to avoid eye contact whenever he wants to avoid talking to certain people.

Have you ever noticed how people intentionally avoid eye contact in closed in public places like elevators? Perhaps it is our attempt to to offset/negate  the  uncomfortable nature of the unwelcome proximity of  our bodies. The avoidance of eye contact makes objects of us. Walk down a city street and you will find the same thing. The city experience is so much more impersonal than the small town where people look and acknowledge you even when they don't know you. . In city you are no more than an object in passing to the stranger walking  by vs. situations of eye contact where you feel recognized and validated as a person.

This  is at least one NT experience. I hope it proves somewhat helpful to you.  I’ll try to address the matter of hugs for you tomorrow.  

Mom of Hrick

P.S. Just as an aside, not all Autists are without ability to read eyes..  For some it may simply prove too overwhelming an experience.    Hrick generally avoids eye contact because he says it is packed with human emotion, far too potentially overloading to the fragile balance of his sensory systems functioning.

P.S.S.  Your quote made me chuckle Nyanchen. I’ll tell you why in PM

for me, I don't usually look into people's eyes because they dont hold any usful information and it just makes me anxious. Eyes are too still. When I actually do look into them they just stare at me...like they arn't doing the eye contact thing right.

But on the other hand eye brows is where the emotion is held, or where I can detect it. The way they are slanted says how they are either sad, mad, happy, excited...ect. I also use the shape of the mouth and posistioning of the arms.

But even more then ctual visual indicators I usually rely on tone of voice to dect boardness and other emotions, especially sarcasm.

Good thread!  

Okay, here's my question to NTs: what's with the ball fixation?  Why does anything that rolls have to be caught, kicked, thrown, hit with a stick or otherwise pelted?  It's something I've never understood.

Thanks in advance for any insights.
Alison

Alison,

My NT son said to tell you "it is called stimming".  Mom

Ooh, this is fascinating! NT chiming in here.

Can't help with that one, I'm as mystified as you!

No. I think it's more analogous to reading; if you're a fluent reader you can't help but read words in your language/alphabet that are in front of you. The message doesn't particularly go through a conscious process to arrive as 'meaning' in the brain, it just is. I think that's also a good analogy because there are also cultural differences in body language. Also, NTs screw up loads of the time in reading eye expressions/body language, just that we cover our tracks well.

'Personal space' varies from person to person,and situation to situation; I think that NTs do feel discomfort in some situations of closeness, but that it has to be closer.

I'm a total 'touchy-feely' person. I hug and kiss people because it feels good; because it's an expression of the affection I hold for them. Again, this is not an NT universal feeling - I have friends who I don't hug or kiss, not because I don't like them but because they don't like the contact.

Thanks Beastie and Mom of Hrick and all those NT's being brave. I am really enjoying this thread. Thanks too for all of you guys on the spectrum for not using this thread to be an us and them superiority thing. I am hoping this thread will have a long life and give us all some really interesting insight.

Nervous_neuron makes a good point.
To Quote:

That's what's interesting about the autistic spectrum. People may be thinking about who is 'on the spectrum', but perhaps everyone is to varying degrees, like the autistic quotent (AQ) might suggest.  

Fact is many NT's exhibit the same traits as AS, maybe just in lesser degree or fewer number.  It is the misunderstandings that arise from the differences, not the difference themselves that create problem. Not quite sure why we, as NT have to make them  into so much bigger deal when it is an AS displaying them.

Mine is a strong personality. Hrick says I have sharp edges and I'm well defined. As pertains to emotional displays I'm a relatively private person. I've never been comfortable with public displays of affection, at least those that do not involve one's children. For purposes of personal exchanges,unless practicality prevents, I hold my own space without hesitation. I have no difficulty asserting myself in askig someone to  back off if need be. (As an aside, I'm often surprised by how hesitant you as aspies are to do it. It makes you uncomfortable, yet you seem to feel almost guilty in asserting yourself to express it.)

Hugs carry a kind of sincerity factor for me. i'm not put off by people who hug because that is who they are. Their contact does not bother me at all. In contrast, those who do it for show or out of some sense of appropriateness to the situation end up receiving a really stiff (literally) awkward response from me. Determining which is which as hugs go is an automatic emotional read for me.

But hugs can also be wonderful. Somewhat comparable to "a picture is worth a thousand words. There are those  times when hugs are far more powerful than words.  My most memorable hug came from my Father-in-law on the day of our wedding.  He was a man of few words.  His embrace, filled with such love and acceptance, spoke volumes that day.  It was probably our most memorable exchange and even now, years later,  I am still warmed by the thought of it.

Mom of Hrick