Aspies For Freedom

Simen
you asked for direction to Asperger's paper. Enter "die autitischen psychopathen" on google and it should take you to neurodiversity.com and the paper.
I have taken key expressions from the paper as follows "Our method originates in intuition, in the attempt to grasp the structural principle of the personality." and as Asperger puts it "dispenses with a system built according to logical points of view because such a system does not for us appear to correspond to the reality of life". This ties in with Hamburger's statement "The rubbish of which physicians must free themselves is the dross of misapplied science, that pseudoscience in medicine which opposes itself to the clearly ascertainable facts of everyday experience"
In other words we are not talking science here.

I agree with your view of a holistic approach. Conventional science has its limitations and this is one of them. It would have to find all the genetic mutations and then somehow prove they had all gone wrong.
Your digital and analogue ideas ties in with my evolutionary approach. The autistic mind was the taker of all descisions and hence sees in black and white. The neurotypical or as I prefer "tribal" mind can also require the contribution of others to arrive a certainty hence can see black and white but there is also doubt or a shade of grey. For Simen the evolutionary approach I take is published as "Autistic Shoes : Evolution of Behaviour" all the proof you need is contained within yourself.

Simen

go to
http://neurodiversity.com/library_asperger_1944.pdf

"our" refers to the team Asperger was working with.

Say what?  You really should brush up on history related to the important revolutionary scientific theories.  That kind of why usually was only verified much later.  Thermodynamics for instance was derived using the concept of a caloric fluid, which while not what was actually going on is representative enough of how that's it's going on to be taught basically the same way.  A significant amount of the development of science has historically been that way, you hammer away at it until you get a handle on how it's working and then refine it as much as you can.

If you had any idea how many breakthroughs involved using simplifications to derive relations from validated models of how it worked, I expect you wouldn't say such things about "conventional science."

Your hypothesis has an over obsession on genes, in case you haven't noticed twins with identical genes don't have the same personality, meaning there's a lot more to the system then you're acknowledging that cannot be considered insignificant.  Your assertions here would require NTs to universally be followers which I think we can establish isn't true.  Survivalists types aren't concentrated in Autism community either so I would suggest you try again.

I didn't want to go there but fine:

Evolution: The core postulate of evolution as opposed to established and utterly independent genetics and adaptation theory is that mutations and adaptations accumulate in a irreversible process that can allow crossing the species boundary.  Note that one of the requirements for a species involves not being able to breed with other species and create offspring that can then breed, and usually involves differences in things like even the number of chromosomes.  In relatively recent times, ie the past several decades, several attempts were made to create evolution in the laboratory using simple lifeforms.  The results verified the established genetic and adaptation theories, but have utterly failed to lend so much as an iota of support for evolutions core postulates.  Yet the establishment suppresses dissent because its convenient for them, especially in regards to some historical organizational issues ala the Air Force as separate from the Army issues.  It simply doesn't pass muster against professional skepticism, and yet I expect many of you think it does because the establishment said so.

So seems as how in Autistic_Shoes thread you never had anything to say about evolution itself, where's your evidence?  Reality check, establishments are organizations, and just like every other organization they have motives and agendas.  The constant medical back and forth with the media using the establishment's case studies should have gotten that through your head already.

Do we need to go farther with things like the establishment being convinced the aether existed despite the reasoning involved actually contradicted the underlying principles upon which it was built, or will you concede at that?  Established theories stand because people hammered the hell out of them trying to knock them down and in the process created something that couldn't be.  Note that these theories are still continuously being challenged, tested, and refined.  Not because the establishment delivered it from on high, and from what I've seen in my attempts to find similar psychology has fallen far behind muster in those regards.  Someone simply able to make good observations can run rings around what's out there right now.

If you can't understand how you're acting in a suppressive instead of profession manner after I outlined the professional one I expect I can't help you.  On the of chance, using loaded questions and statements especially without actual support is rather hypocritical even if you don't recognize what it is and why you're using it.  Maybe instead of attacking it in such a childish fashion you could try to understand it and develop thought experiment problems to hash over like Einstein loved to do.  You think Einstein's companions just went "gee that sounds good" or "where's your [basically non-existant due to lack of sufficient measuring equipment at the time] proof"?  We'd still be just banging the rocks together if things worked your way.

I'm a trained applied science professional, and to be honest your comments are just coming off as those of a spoiled child that has his favorite subject infringed upon but doesn't actually know anything about it and so has devolved to whining and throwing a tantrum.  I can't say I appreciate people like you at all.

B"H

I had too much difficulty downloading the article to comment intelligently.  I believe, however, that Ryu is on to something.  I have a very strange conjecture about Asperger.  Actually, let me be specific; I have a very strange conjecture about the talents that people have with Asperger and Autism.  My notion is that these talents are an adaptation that the brain has developed when ordinary neural connections do not function.  I believe that *EVERYONE* may have that potential, but that it only activates in a few people because they need the adaptation.  Perhaps that is part of what Ryu is getting at.  When the Corpus Collosi are no longer able to connect the Right and Left brains, or when the Parietal and Frontal Cortex cannot connect to do math in the "typical" way, the brain adapts.  That is the gift of Asperger.  It is not a curse, but a gift, if rightly understood as an adaptation to a bad situation and not the bad situation itself.  In other words, the "condition" of Autism might have many sources, genetic, environmental, et al.  But, the gift of being able to adapt autistically to a situation in which the brain cannot make typical connections, to be able to focus on an intense area of interest when other areas of concentration are closed, to make new connections and still function even with an impairment, is something that is the brain's remarkable adaptation.  Again, I believe that we can redefine "autism" as an adaptation, not a condition.  How does the brain do this?  Well, when ordinary neuro-transmitters do not work, maybe the "analogue brain" (Ryu) kicks in automatically, with a genetically pre-programmed response that allows individual areas of the brain to function as peak capacity while communicating with one another on a minimal basis.  Hardware converts to software.    And, as Chomsky suggested common rules for language that are genetic, products of life's developmental design, so might autism be a part of the brain's back-up metacognitive functioning.  "When all else fails, let the back-up program kick in so that an individual can still exist and not merely separate brain functions."  I have no idea of how to prove this, or whether any brain researcher would agree.  It is a subtle sense that I get more than a scientific theory, which does after all require evidence that I do not possess.

A True Monotheist

Hillel says, "If I am not for myself, who will be for me? But if I am only for myself, who am I? If not now, when?" Ethics of the Fathers, 1:14

Response to Batman55:  No sir.  I apologize if I misspoke.  Rather, I am suggesting that Autistic folks have an adaptation that kicks in regardless of the "cause" of Autism.

It is a conjecture, but it seems as though neuro-diverse thinking is a gift, an adaptation to what might be genetic, brain damage, or what have you.   I do not even know enough about the "hard birth" theory to comment beyond this.

All the best,
A True Monotheist

Hillel says, "If I am not for myself, who will be for me? But if I am only for myself, who am I? If not now, when?" Ethics of the Fathers, 1:14

Ryu,

Your statement:

The word "Autism" is no longer appropriate, so NT should be called "digital thinker" and AS should be called "analogic thinker"

is amazing!!  Instead of using a medical disagnosis, youare proposing a strengths-based system of thinking about human differences.  I absolutely LOVE it.  Temple Grandin (also someone you might want to contact) puplished a book, Animals in Translation.  In it she talks about how sentient beings cognate.  While I don't agree with everything she says, I was taken by her thought that the [NT] human brain developed because of human's close association with dogs.  

To substitute your termonology for hers (I like your's better),  origenally dog & human brains were analog. Then >35,000years ago, dogs and humans hooked-up and specialized.  Humans took on activities that needed .[quote]“digital processing” means “linguistic processing”[quote] to develop verbal, and eventually, written communication.  Dogs took on [quote]Analogic thinker (AS) can recognize the real world at this moment [quote] and also maintained the sensory organs (smell, hearing, vision for movement) to excell in this capacity.

I hope nobody is offended by an interpretation that AS are like dogs.  For one thing, anybody who has had a relationship with a dog KNOWS how incredible they are. For another thing, the human brain, both analog and digital, has way more grey matter than a dog does.  The human analog brain has as much or MORE gray matter than a dogs.  Since one of the defining characteristics of a child with autism is a larger skull cercumference, they probably have more grey matter than a digital brain (but I would need to research that).

you mean hypothosis?

I don't know what Ryu meant, but "theory" works....

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
the·o·ry      /ˈθiəri, ˈθɪəri/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[thee-uh-ree, theer-ee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -ries. 1. a coherent group of general propositions used as principles of explanation for a class of phenomena: Einstein's theory of relativity.  
2. a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact.  
3. Mathematics. a body of principles, theorems, or the like, belonging to one subject: number theory.  
4. the branch of a science or art that deals with its principles or methods, as distinguished from its practice: music theory.  
5. a particular conception or view of something to be done or of the method of doing it; a system of rules or principles.  
6. contemplation or speculation.  
7. guess or conjecture.

Very interesting hypothesis, Ryu! It sounds similar to the philosopher Daniel Dennett's idea that language creates a linear, digital, and symbol-based "emulation" within a brain that processes information in a massively parallel, analog, image-based fashion.

My hypothesis is that one neurological aspect of autism is weak connections between the visual-spatial areas in the parietal and occipital lobes on one hand and the language areas (Broca's Area especially) in the left frontal and left temporal lobes on the other. This creates a degree of disconnect between images and symbols, and is thus why a common autistic trait is a fascination with parts of objects.